Talk:Artificial lifeform
Merge In , when Dahj hears that Data was an android, she says "Like the ones that destroyed Mars?" Evidently, synthetic and synth are synonyms for androids. No word yet if holograms count. - Mitchz95 (talk) 03:27, January 24, 2020 (UTC) :Oppose. The creation of new synths "of any kind" is a crime, so the term obviously applies to more than one type of synthetic lifeform. - 04:43, January 24, 2020 (UTC) ::Oppose. The implication is that the term covers more than one type of synthetic lifeform. However, regardless of how it's defined going forward, the term is exceptionally significant and nearly-ubiquitous in Picard. It clearly needs its own page, and not to just get lumped in with android. --TimPendragon (talk) 04:52, January 24, 2020 (UTC) In that case, perhaps it should instead be moved to synthetic? Those, at least, appear interchangeable. - Mitchz95 (talk) 04:57, January 24, 2020 (UTC) :::It's a multipurpose term: "Synthetic Scotch, synthetic commanders." I don't think synth needs to be pigeonholed like that. ::: However, the better option would actually be synthetic lifeform, a term used by Dr. Bashir to describe Data. --Alan (talk) 05:17, January 24, 2020 (UTC) :The full general term for non-biological life does appear to be "synthetics" by the time of PIC, but that seems to be just a shorter term for the longer artificial lifeform, with synth being an even shorter term. Synthetic is generally used on other things, so if we're merging these all together it would most likely be at the current AI article. That said, I wouldn't merge anything yet, since we have a whole season here about synths and then we still have Zora floating around in the future to deal with. - 05:34, January 24, 2020 (UTC) ::: There still may be a case to be made dividing an intelligent talking computer and a walking talking manufactured humanoid facsimile. All examples of synthetic "things" on star trek are tangible manufactured objects designed to imitate the "real thing". (And yes, i realize synthetic and artificial are pretty much synonymous, but my case is moreso to indicate that an artificial lifeform nay be an artificial intelligence, but an artificial intelligence may not necessarily be an artificial lifeform.)--Alan (talk) 05:46, January 24, 2020 (UTC) :That's probably true based on the usage of the terms, but we should check to make sure. I can't think of an instance after TOS where explicit mentions to AI or AL aren't at least implied to be interchangeable, so at a certian point it seems all AI of note is AL. At the very least, we'll have the terms going to the right pages. - 06:03, January 24, 2020 (UTC) If anything, I think we should merge it with Artificial intelligence, because I believe a synth could be a hologram, robot, android, computer or many other things that aren't alive in the biological sense. ::::Still, I think it works better as its' own page, since it seems this is going to be a commonly used term henceforth, and we already have pages like Terran and Earther, which pretty much mean the same thing, but they are different enough, and used enough that we might as well have two pages for them. Although if I was the one to have originally named them, the page called Terran would have been about the mirror universe Humans and the other page would be called "Terran (word)" or something like that. Not that we're discussing that here, but that's just something else I had in mind. Anyway, yeah I'd rather not merge this page. ::::--Noah Tall (talk) 14:40, January 24, 2020 (UTC) ::I don't think artificial intelligence and artificial lifeform are completely synonymous. The Enterprise-D's computer is an example of the former, but it is not portrayed as a lifeform in any sense. --TimPendragon (talk) 14:57, January 24, 2020 (UTC) ::: I think the Kyrians were the only ones to identify holograms and androids on the same level: "Doctor is a hologram. A backup program. We always knew he was an artificial lifeform but, we thought he was an android." ::: But be it as it may, the most expanded form of synth --> synthetic --> synthetic lifeform is still floating out there as a bona fide Star Trek term from the past describing Data in , and a lesser sense, . ::: I'd also like to point out that as I was mentioning above, synthetic lifeforms or artifical lifeforms are most certainly a subgroup of artificial intelligence because by definition, a "lifeform" describes "form", specifically, the body form that characterizes whatever it is designed to mimic, I haven't seen where a computer has been given that definition on its own. ::: In , when Data was viewed by the Malcorians, he was described by Marista as "He's an android, Chancellor. A constructed being." -- the Chancellor replied "A machine?" -- to which Data clarified, "In a manner of speaking. The term artificial lifeform would be more accurate." Regarding further use of the term "artificial lifeform", they have only ever been mentioned in TNG, VOY and ENT (per Arik Soong), all in reference to androids (or that hologram example I used above). ::: On the other hand, "artificial intelligence" has fairly consistently been steered away from defining androids outright, and has pointed moreso at "things that can intelligently think": like warheads, or Spheres, or food dispensers (with its intelligent circuitry), or laser drills, or that Lost in Space robot (aka computer on wheels) from , were all identified as artificial intelligence. Even Zora and M-5 computer are still computer units, even if they are artificially intelligent. While the closest thing to the application of the term to "lifeforms" goes back to the "brain" moreso than the whole "form", as was given in early understandings of the Borg, "To link artificial intelligence directly into the humanoid brain," and Data's advancements to Lal's programming, in general (use of contractions and feeling emotions) being "a technological step forward in the development of artificial intelligence". ::: I think the term machine/'machine mind', from TOS, is really the only thing that remotely muddies the water on this topic moreso than the compare and contrast of the two terms being discussed here, but even then, it still seems to use it well enough to describe Nomad, a thing my above comments would describe as an AI, as "a perfect thinking machine, capable of independent logic" (again focusing on talent, not form). --Alan (talk) 15:26, January 24, 2020 (UTC) ::Exocomps were said to be lifeforms, even though the form itself is more or less a floating box. ::That said, it seems that what we want to do is create an artificial lifeform page with synth and synthetic lifeform as redirects, and then rework artificial intelligence to cover those subjects and the thinking machines. - 19:51, January 29, 2020 (UTC) ::: Sounds like a plan to me. --Alan (talk) 20:09, January 29, 2020 (UTC)